Episode 5: Moving From Online Worship To Online Discipleship

Announcer/Intro Voice Welcome to the Digital Pavement Podcast, where digital ministry and the urban church collide. Each episode features pioneers and ministry leaders from black and brown communities who use technology to shape the future of faith. From streaming worship to online outreach, discover stories, insights, and impact from those redefining digital ministry in our cities. Welcome to the Digital Pavement Podcast.

DeMarquis Battle what's going on family welcome to the digital pavement podcast where digital ministry and the urban church collide i am your host demarcus battle and listen we have a fantastic show lined up for you on tonight our guest is none other than chris mcdonald listen i'm gonna i'm gonna read her bio y'all and it is uh Power packed, but I'm going to go through the whole thing. So just bear with me. So Chris McDonald is a seminary trained scholar, digital influencer and faith forward entrepreneur, empowering communities to live authentically. lead with purpose and love like Christ through it all. She is the founder of Digital Church Impact, a consulting firm that equips faith-based organizations to practice faithful, trauma-informed digital ministry so that the technology serves discipleship, not the other way around. I love that point. She is also the creator and curator of God on Display, a Christian lifestyle and apparel brand where faith meets culture in fashion-forward ways. Ultimately, Chris, y'all, has a shepherd's heart to see people grow in faith, lead with love, and show up in the world with courage and conviction. TDPP family, can you welcome to the show tonight Chris McDonough. What's going on, Chris?

Chris McDonald What's going on, Dr. Maddow? Listen, I am so excited to be here. Thank you so much for the invitation to come and have this conversation with you. I'm excited about all that we'll be able to glean from one another in this time together.

DeMarquis Battle I love that. I love that you said glean from one another because this is a conversation that will be impactful and will help to equip those that are listening specifically over the topic that we're going to unpack. But I'm just excited. And thank you for joining us on tonight. So before we jump into everything, I'd love for you just to share. Give us a little update with what's going on in your world right now.

Chris McDonald Yes, so I am currently what I would consider a free agent in pastoral ministry. I am currently discerning on where I will be shepherding from next. I resigned from my last position in August of last year, and the Lord has literally been guiding my steps since with Digital Church Impact. I have been blessed to be able to partner with several different churches, in several different places in the United States to be able to help them with digital ministry, hybrid ministry, and digital discipleship. But I know that I've been called to pastoral ministry. And so I'm currently weighing the options and seeing where it is that God wants me to serve next when it comes to connections and digital discipleship within a church context. While I work globally, I know that I'm called somewhere locally to be able to help shepherd the Lord's church. So my prayer is that God will show me where I'm supposed to be next and I'll be there.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah, no, I love that. I love the idea of serving or being planted locally, but thinking globally. Right. And I think that is a bit of the shift that many of our churches and ministries have. have to begin to take is that as you are rooted in the local church context, you understand that you're serving that community. But there are also ways in which you can reach the world. And so you have to think also globally. So I love I love that you're taking your time as God is expanding you and equipping you to serve. marketplace ministry is what many people might term that with digital church impact. I love that you're leaning on the leading of the Holy Spirit to see where he will have you next. So I'm going to be connecting with you and praying with you on that. I love what God is doing. So let's jump into this thing on tonight. We're going to be discussing uh moving from online worship to online discipleship because there is definitely a difference uh in those those two things and so we're going to jump into that but before we do i think it's critical especially for those that are serving in black and brown communities and what some might call the urban church context, right? I think it's important that we see persons like yourself, like myself, who are serving in ministry, but also serving in the digital space and doing it well. What I'm interested to know is what is your trailblazer story? Like, you know, we read your bio and God's been doing so many wonderful things in and through your life. And and we read and we shared that you're a seminary trained scholar. So I know what that what that means, because I've been down that road. And you're also a digital influencer. influencer and a faithful entrepreneur. So so kind of give us your trailblazer story. How did you get started with all of this?

Chris McDonald Yes. So first of all, it's interesting how the pandemic exposed so much. that was lacking in the church until it happened, right? So I always tell people that I did not come into digital ministry because it was trending or because people had already caught up to the curve, right? I came into this literally from a personal perspective of influencing. So I was already blogging. I was already doing like the Christian lifestyle thing online on different social platforms. And I literally just brought that into my internship at my local church because I saw the gap. I saw the gap between passive participation and active engagement that they did not have at that church. And for that church to be of the size that it was considered in that area, a mega church, They did not have the online component that I knew needed to be there for them to be that size. Because if we are saying we're a church who grows, then we need to be growing beyond these walls. We need to be growing in the places where we need to turn viewers into flocks. And so I saw that gap because I knew that I was doing that in my own personal ministry where I was engaging, equipping and empowering. I said, well, I see the gap here. So I just started kind of like creating content a little bit here and there in my internship, suggesting certain things that we should do with our online social media. When I first started there, I think the social media was like, It may be two, three thousand followers, maybe Instagram, nine to ten thousand on Facebook. And I said there's so much potential there. So the pandemic really opened up that door to expose that. And so while I was doing it just as a, oh, I just want to use my creative prowess, the pandemic happened and it became a necessity. We need to be able to connect people and not just have people passively participating. We need to make sure that the people are coming onto the social real estate that we have, that God has given us, and actually gleaning from it in a way that they don't wander off somewhere else and don't come back. We need to figure out as shepherds how to keep the flock here and create good pastors for them to grace from. And so literally that's where I started just in a ministry context. And then I realized the Lord showed me your personal and your professional is blending. Like this is why you were doing what you were doing in this personal endeavor because it's helping you with the ministry endeavor. And at that time I was not pastoring. I didn't even know that the Lord was calling me to pastor at the time. I just thought that I was supposed to be serving in ministry. I came from a law enforcement background. I served in law enforcement for a cumulative 10 years of corrections. And for the special emergency serve team, I thought I would always be in law enforcement and climb that ladder. But when the Lord, in the fall of 2016, and the Lord said, it's time for you to go. And I was like, it's time for me to leave work? Like, yeah, I'm ready to go. And he's like, no, it's time for you to leave this profession. And I remember praying about it that night and saying, I'm confused. Like, I thought I was supposed to be lieutenant next, right?

DeMarquis Battle Mm-hmm.

Chris McDonald And I started applying to what I called then Bible school. I didn't even know the term seminary at the time. This was in 2016 because I wasn't raised with that type of dialect, right? That church aspect. I was raised that you get in where you fit in, you serve. So I had been a life group leader. Like I was serving, but I never saw myself as a shepherd. And it wasn't until the fall of 2016 when the Lord shifted my perspective of ministry to and I enrolled in seminary and fast forward while I was getting my Master of Divinity, I had to do my internship where all of this started unfolding. 2019, I graduated not knowing the pandemic was coming soon after. And then the next thing you know, all of this stuff that I had worked on The trauma-informed care through my Master of Divinity. The shepherding that I was doing on my own platform that I did not realize at the time was shepherding.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah.

Chris McDonald Ended up paving a way for pastoral ministry. And a couple of years later, they came to me and said, hey, we want to start our online campus and we want you to be the online pastor. And I was like, pastor? Wow. All right. So this is absolutely nothing that I asked for, but it's everything that God called me to.

DeMarquis Battle Oh, my goodness. What what an amazing story. And there was so much there that that you shared. You know, you started off by identifying a gap. Right. A need. And that's, I believe, a sweet spot for for the Lord's development of those that he calls. is there's a gap or there's a need and you're just a willing vessel to serve in that capacity to address that need. And then that becomes the training ground that the Lord begins to work us through. And I love that, you know, there are seasons where you're serving in one area or doing one thing, whether it be personally or professionally, and God will use it all for the good. And I know some of that lingo because you said CERT team. So real quick sidebar, my wife served in emergency management for a few years and with the fire department in our local city. And she's actually a PIM, professional emergency manager. So, you know, I totally understand all of that, that sort of thing. And she works really closely or did rather with lieutenants and those sorts of things. So I know exactly that area where you were. But, you know, I think it's it's interesting as well, though, that you have that training ground because you you're able to identify. those gaps and those emergencies. Right. And being able to address where the church needs to go. I heard you talk about, you know, providing a place where those viewers or those who are engaging with the ministry don't wander off, but that they literally become a flock that they can graze in good ground. Right. And if we don't provide that, they'll find another place to go. You know, unfortunately, you know, digital ministry is the wild, wild west, you know, whether you're on TikTok, Instagram, whatever you're on, you know. And so for those who are doing ministry and doing it well and providing a good, solid foundation and good ground, what more should we be doing to produce that and to present that for folks to get to it?

Chris McDonald Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. And one of the things that I have really discovered post pandemic since I've been called into this work as an online pastor is that we've mastered live stream. But we have not mastered shepherding in this digital age. That's where my trauma informed care fuses with that discipleship piece, because we are creating people who are compliant with our ministries. But we are not creating people who are cultivating into disciples because of our ministries. And so it's great to have a big live stream and to have these numbers and our analytics aligned with impact. But we could be making an impact as far as performance. But are we making an impact when it comes to people's heart posture and how they're connected to Christ? And I think that we have to start seeing digital ministry in that way, which means us as pastors have to learn a theology of technology in order to be able to understand the significance. Because some people still treat live streaming as an addendum and also to the ministry and not as a part of a necessary part of ministry. No different than you need the sermon.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah. Yeah. No, I love man. Listen, if I could give an offer right now, you talking good, because I think where people confuse it is that online church is not digital ministry. Right. Like I think that that's two separate things. And so, yes, we do need to, you know, share the word through online broadcast of our worship experiences or our Bible studies. Right. But there is a whole nother arena of what we call digital ministry. that happens throughout the week, right? And that's that shepherding, that pastoring that you're speaking of. And so, you know what? Why don't we do this? We're going to take a quick commercial break and then we're going to enter into our next segment. So family, hold on with this and check this out. Hey, what's going on family? Demarcus Battle, host of the Digital Pavement Podcast. And this episode is powered by The Church Digital. The Church Digital resources digital missionaries and pioneers to make disciples in digital spaces. So if you sense a calling in your life for being a missionary in digital spaces, or if you want to take your ministry through the digital age, connect with us at thechurch.digital and join our Discord server or our WhatsApp community. We look forward to connecting with you real soon. And this podcast episode is actually sponsored by the Church Digital Streaming Network. And, you know, if you are looking to become a digital missionary or you're just wanting to get more tools and resources to help your church reach people, On the Internet. Right. We would love for you to connect with the church digital. You can visit the website website at the church digital and you'll be able to gain more information about this amazing organization. And so, Chris, let's keep this conversation going. Our next segment is the blueprint. And this is strategies. for doing digital ministry well. And so just in your experience and your time as an online pastor and bringing it back to the topic at hand, moving from online worship to doing online discipleship, right? What can you share from a strategy standpoint on how to do this well?

Chris McDonald Absolutely. So first, I'll start here. What I've discovered, DeMarcus, is that online discipleship requires intention, number one, like you have to intentionally want to make the transition from simply doing online church and live streaming to online discipleship or digital discipleship. So it requires intention. infrastructure, which means you really need to learn what you need and why you need it, as opposed to simply thinking you need a tech team. And you need imagination. You need somebody who can willfully see a shepherding viewpoint through digital ministry. Somebody coming in who doesn't understand the theology of technology will find it hard to make that transition from what we need for the live stream versus what we need to do digital ministry, because as you said, they are two different things. And it's not that you need either or. We live in a world where we sometimes think of ministry as an either or thing. Either we need in person or we need online. Not both and, which is hybrid ministry. You really need to help your teams merge together to be able to understand how all of this works together. Your tech team needs to understand the theology of technology to work well with the person you're called to lead over that area. And so all of those work together, intention, infrastructure, and imagination. Because you have to go from simply having an audience to having a community. It's formed, the spiritual formation. There's a lot of churches with big audiences, but do we have community?

DeMarquis Battle Mmm.

Chris McDonald Right.

DeMarquis Battle Oh, look, I can chew on that.

Chris McDonald I can chew on that for a while.

DeMarquis Battle You gave us three I's, right? You said intention.

Chris McDonald Yep.

DeMarquis Battle Right. Now, what was the second one?

Chris McDonald Infrastructure.

DeMarquis Battle infrastructure so okay i i think i think we we can grasp the intention right but the infrastructure and and i wanna i wanna bring this back home for those in urban context because depending on If you're storefront, if you're if you're medium sized. Right. Or if you're if you're in the mega category. OK, that infrastructure is going to look different. Right. So so what do we say to someone that, you know, either has a limited budget? Or a limited human resource. Right. Maybe they don't have a full team. Like, you know what? How do they build that infrastructure?

Chris McDonald That's a great question. Oh, my gosh. So to be honest, many of the churches that Digital Church Impact works with are small rural churches. from places where they are not the typical mega church or have a lot of people. Maybe their membership is 50 to 150 people, right? I have worked with churches that are a little bigger and I've worked with churches that are huge, 2,000 members. But most of my clients are those small churches where they don't have a lot of hands, but they got a lot of heart. The infrastructure is going to start with your heart posture. It is going to require you to see that your infrastructure is not the bones of your building, but the bones of what you're building online. So that budget that we have for the building ministry, we need to turn it into building our digital ministry.

DeMarquis Battle Podcast over. The podcast is over. Listen, you're going to have to go to digitalchurchimpact.com. Yes, sir.

Chris McDonald Book your free discovery call today.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah, book your discovery call with Chris McDonald from Digital Church Impact. No, I'm serious, y'all, because she's giving away. I don't want to put a monetary value on that because I don't want to mess it up. But she's giving away pure gold, y'all, to really impact churches, hence Digital Church Impact. But you said something there, right? Heart posture, right? Not the bones of the building, but the people that are willing to serve out of their overflow, right? Out of their heart's posture. I love all of what you're saying there. And I appreciate that you speak to a large portion of your clientele looks like most of American churches, right? That 50 to 100 to 150 membership, right?

Chris McDonald That's right. That's right. Literally. You know, I know social media highlights a lot of our mega churches and the issues that come with those. But I really wish that we would spend more time highlighting the smaller churches who are really out here doing major work. Mega work is what I like to say. Small churches doing mega work. And what I often tell my clients is, You may not have the budget for what you think is digital ministry. You probably don't have the money to pay somebody to do the pro presenter or, you know, work your live stream well. And maybe all you have is an iPhone 15 to be able to stream. That's not your real issue because when you understand the theology behind why you're doing what you're doing, the technical part of it is not going to matter as much. What you need to do is find the people who are willing to understand why you're doing what you're doing and then start from where you are, which means using my 3D formula, discover, digitize, and then disciple. First, discover what it is you have and you don't have. you could have some resources right there with you that you don't even realize because you're not used to seeing your ministry in a digital way. So you need to partner with me to audit your ministry. What is it that you have and you don't have? Who do you have and who don't you have? If you're doing the bare minimum of even live streaming as a small church, there's somebody in that comment section who shows up on time every Sunday for your live stream and is in the comments saying, hey and bye. That's your online host right there. You just have to give them an opportunity to be willing to be used. Just have a conversation with them. Yep.

DeMarquis Battle Yep.

Chris McDonald So because they're already there, that you've already seen that they're consistent. You've already seen that they will show up. And so when I talk about infrastructure, a lot of times we think we're supposed to be building big and we won't even start with what we have on the small scale. Right. Yes. Foundation. Let's lay the foundation with what we already have. You know, and I think of illustration. This is a preaching moment. Right. I think of illustration of. Our garages, right? Our garage is one of the most used areas in our homes where we're coming in and out. And a lot of times we have stuff in our garage that we forget that we have there. And I heard a story of someone having this garage and they were wanting to expand their driveway and they went to Home Depot to get the stuff to lay the concrete. Not realizing that they had another thing that they did for their house where they had to previously get that and forgot that they already had it in the house. They already had the stuff to do the concrete there. They just needed to mix it up and lay it out. What is it that you have in your ministry, in your context? You just need to see it. You need to remember that it's there. You need to mix it up and then use it while you can and then expand yourself and go spend the money where you need to spend it. But if you start where you are, you can do something that God will give you the capability to do. You just have to recognize your capacity and be okay with your capacity.

DeMarquis Battle Yes. I love that. You know, we have gifts that are sitting, that have been sitting and have been sitting, but haven't been pulled out for use. And I love that you said, and I don't want to frame this as taking a dig at the church because there's enough of that going on. But I do want to say that What you shared about the person that's on the live stream saying hi and bye, the first one that's there, that's a moderator. So why is it the world where you have those that are streaming have moderators all the time and people willing to do it? they willing to do it for interest groups, right? You know, whether they're on, you know, YouTube being a mod, on Discord, you know, being a mod, on Twitch being a mod, whatever it is, right? We just don't, you know, sometimes we don't have the language to put to some of this. You know what I mean? And they don't know that you can be useful in the master's hands by being the usher that you are online. Right. Being that greeter online, being that moderator online. And who's to say that that doesn't.

Chris McDonald blossom and flourish into you being you know the the online director or the actual online pastor i was just about to say you could be cultivating your next online shepherd for your ministry and you don't even realize it because if you don't even know the people's names in your live stream You're not creating community. You're creating an audience for yourself. And we have to see that.

DeMarquis Battle So let's sit on that for a second, right? Let's park it and unpack that a bit. Because... People don't understand the, and it goes back to the idea and the concept of online church versus digital ministry and community, right? And our ministry, my wife and I, from the digital space, we have a principle of community over content. That, you know, if we don't have community, the content that we curate, the content that we produce is not doing what we want it to do. We want to move into community. Right. And so, you know, talk to us about that a little bit, like the importance of community to actually, you know, flourish our digital ministry.

Chris McDonald That's right. I love that. So this is this conversation is like, I'm over here excited. You can't see it, but I'm over here like wanting to jump up and down in my chair. But you saying about the community and content, I always say content will lead to community. But you have to make sure that you're diligent about how that content leads to community. So content leads to comments first, right? Online. that those comments could be shepherded into conversations that lead to your commitment for community. But you can't just automatically assume that somebody is going to respond to your content in a way that that's going to welcome them or invite them into community. You literally have to open the door for people first room for a community you have to give them a way in content is the way in so for those churches who don't think that they need content online you're going to err in that but don't let that content be what draws the people in so for instance I've noticed a lot of larger churches who have the capital the financial capital to invest in digital creators and graphic designers and they have amazing content but I go and I'll do a a private audit on their social media and notice that they have a lot of engagement but no shepherding because you've mastered content but you haven't mastered community yes but the content needs to lead to that so if you have people in the comments who are commenting on something that was said in the sermon clip or if they're a matter of fact sometimes we don't even have any comments Because we're not giving a call to action. We're posting the content because it's trendy, because it looks good, because it's visually appealing, which will get the likes. It will get the follows, but we're just having a bunch of viewers and a bunch of followers, but we're not creating a flop. Okay. Right? So call to action. If you're doing this content, what is the purpose for it? Why am I putting this content on our social media page? Well, we want them to do X, Y, Z. We'll make sure that your Lincoln bio is up to date to where they can connect to all of these opportunities. I'm giving so much free info.

DeMarquis Battle Listen, I feel bad. I'm like, listen, you giving them way too much, but, but go ahead.

Chris McDonald You see what I'm saying? There are so many different ways that we can give people an avenue, literally. So I just got through, and it's funny because I didn't even realize how much this was going to lead into today's conversation. But this past week, I've been studying Psalm 23 in a whole new light. I read this book that... basically unpacked Psalm 23 from a shepherd's perspective, like somebody who literally shepherded sheep in real time. And one of the things that I noticed that we often overlook is that whether it's in-person or online, we always need that person who is fully present in caring for the sheep. If we have pastors who are present in person, the congregational care pastor, the connections pastor, the outreach pastor, why don't we have that for the online people? we just assume that we're supposed to try to assimilate them into an in-person experience but really we need to keep in mind that what if these people are military families you know like what if these people are in college we have to get outside of just thinking we're assimilating people into the in-person experience And we have to get it into how do we reach them right where they are. The shepherd in the field, he goes to his sheep. He pulls them in. He keeps them all together. But he reaches them in the way that they each need it best. Because if you know anything about sheep, different sheep going to go do different things. They never just all go in one direction. That's why they need a shepherd. Yeah. And so we have to look at it that same way. How is your content acting as a shepherd and who do you have behind it that can lead the sheep in the direction you need them to go?

DeMarquis Battle Oh, I love that. We got to let that just sit and let that marinate a little bit. Because I think I think that is the opportunity that is before us. That shepherding opportunity, because, you know, and you might be I'm sure you're aware, but people are looking to. They're looking for God. They're looking for something to speak to their situation. But more than that, They're looking for community. Now, you know, so that's I think that's the bridge. Right. For the desire, the human experience is for connection, the desire for connection. Right. And so we have an opportunity digitally to fill that specific need. But we got to be willing to go out there and be shepherds. right go out and reach these sheep where they're at right um and so you know i this conversation go a million different ways y'all gonna have to book y'all gonna get it discovered y'all gonna need to do a discovery call with chris we're gonna give her information at the end but y'all gonna have to you know tap in with her because this is pure gold so Listen, we're going to do one more commercial break here and then we're going to come back for our last segment. Family, go ahead and check this out. hey what's going on family dr demarcus battle co-founder of bible with the battles and this episode of the digital pavement podcast is sponsored by bible with the battles listen bible with the battles is an online preaching and teaching ministry whose mission is to help you to hear the word believe the word and apply the word of god to your life And our vision is simple yet profound. Revival begins at home. That's your physical house and all the inhabitants, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, children's brothers, sisters, the whole family. And it is your spiritual house. Revival begins there. And so we just want to share with you that Bible with the battles is here for the sole reason. To help you go to the next level in your faith. Visit our website at BibleWithTheBattles.com Or follow us on all of our social media platforms under the handle BibleWithTheBattles I'll leave you again with our vision which is simple yet profound. Revival begins now. Listen, y'all, revival begins at home. We live by that vision, that motto, and we're just excited to continue to produce digital faith content that's going to reach families, husbands, fathers, mothers, wives. And of course, the children. So Renika and I, my wife, we love serving in this ministry. And we actually started this from the pandemic. Right. Around that time, we felt a shift that God wanted us to begin serving in the digital space. So we've been doing that ever since. All right, Chris, before we get to our last segment, I want to just do a couple rapid fire questions for you here just to have a little bit of fun. All right, you ready? I'm ready. I'm ready for whatever. All right, here we go. Apple or Android? Android. Woo! Okay, hold on now. Now, we've had guests come on the Digital Pavement podcast and almost every single one of them has said Apple. But our sister, our dear sister in the Lord, Chris McDonald, says Android. Any particular reason?

Chris McDonald Yes. So and it's interesting because I have I have Apple. products i have an ipad i have iphone um and i used to be fully um android products um even right now currently um recording this on a dell not a macbook um i'm gonna say this and i'm probably somebody gonna come in your comments later I believe Apple represents the mega church of the world and Android are the small churches. We put so much emphasis in Apple products like it is the beginning and the end of everything. When really Android is the foundational source of where everything has began. and even Apple gleans from the Android source. But because of the prominence of the name and the provision of what they say that it'll give you, we made it so big. But we overlooked some of the smaller components that work just as well, even though financially it may not look as glamorous, right? For instance, my brother, he has a Android watch. We were sitting at a game and I looked over at his watch, thought he had got a new Apple Watch. And I said, oh, you finally got one. And he says... This is not an Apple watch. And it literally looked so much like mine. The only difference was the cost. Yeah.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah. Yeah. No, I, you know, I I'm joking about it, but I'm in the, I'm in the market for a secondary. I don't need a second phone. My wife be on me all the time. You don't need no second phone. I'm like, honey, I need a second phone. I need a second phone. And I've been looking at this one plus. uh this android phone they say they say it's it's it's a heater so your brother has it and it's amazing and the photos look like like you don't even need to invest in a camera like the photos that it produces in the video it's amazing yep so i'm i'm in the market it might be on my birthday i might i might get my second phone i feel you all right let's keep this going um your favorite social media platform

Chris McDonald My favorite right now is I would literally say Facebook, um, because Facebook feels the most like community for me.

DeMarquis Battle Okay. So, okay. Um, and I'm not into asking people's age, but as a, I'm a millennial. Okay. So, um, okay. I can't, I came in the face of millennial.

Chris McDonald I'm, I'm close to zennial and, um, I think I am a zennial. But I am a millennial. I'm 40. I don't mind telling my age. Yeah, I'm 40. I just turned 40 last June. And, you know, my son teases me because he says that's to be expected.

DeMarquis Battle Well, listen, I turned 40 this year. So it's going to be my 40. I call it my year of convergence. 40 years later. old 20 years of preaching the gospel and 18 years of marriage.

Chris McDonald Oh, that's awesome.

DeMarquis Battle 18 years. Oh, my goodness. I feel older than what I am. But that's thank you. Thank you. So. So, no, I agree. Facebook has it does feel the most like community what I'm finding. Another platform that I'm actually on that I'm trying to get people to start kind of perusing in it is Twitch. I started getting on Twitch and that innovative group and it functions totally different from YouTube. there is more conversation and interaction that's happening in the Twitch space. So, you know, YouTube folks, you know, you can broadcast and you don't see a lot of, you know, reading in the comments and taking a break from what you're doing to have conversation, right? Over in Twitch, if you don't talk to the people in your comments, they'll leave, right? It is very much interactive. You're going to have to check out Twitch. There's people over there that gospel radio DJs that are forming community over there. There are people. i was on i did a broadcast on twitch and i i'm just doing a little boondoggle here so just bear with me i i was broadcasting on twitch doing my morning prayer and i usually um multicast on facebook youtube and twitch and i follow some different folks on there there's a there's a woman that i that i met uh through the church digital actually her name is ukulele for worship that's her that's her tagline she gets up every day monday through friday at 6 30 and she works worships on the ukulele and just gets on and does her thing and i said wait wait wait wait wait a minute wait a minute what are we doing here right and it's it's those type of creative innovative people that are so niche that are on there worshiping God, I said, man, what is this place? Right. And then, you know, because people think it's just straight up video games. It's not.

Chris McDonald I did. I thought that it was more gamers, like it was more people into that. Yeah.

DeMarquis Battle So that is a large group, a large population. But there is a just chatting category, which is probably the biggest. people that just broadcast just to talk um so yeah you jump on over there it's the wild wild west but um there's some amazing things that's happening over there and there's a lot of forming of community so that would probably be my second favorite uh social media platform probably after facebook

Chris McDonald Okay, dope. Yeah, I'm definitely checking that out.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah, check that out. All right. Let me keep this thing going because I ain't going to hold you all day. Okay, what you listening to right now? What's your song? What's on your heart?

Chris McDonald Oh, great question. So I have been going back and forth between some new contemporary gospel, Elevation Worship. God, I'm just grateful is the newest song that I've just been playing over and over again. And then R&B, I've been heavy into some like R&B mixtures. So TikTok has a lot of artists where you can go to Apple Music and find their music. And so I've been hearing a lot of like this old R&B sound and I'll go and find the artists and then I'll make a playlist from that. So that's really what I've been into. Because I'm hungry for that 80s, 90s R&B sound that doesn't seem to exist with the newer artists.

DeMarquis Battle It's gone, Chris.

Chris McDonald And I want to support the new artists. So I've been trying to, you know, take what I can and make use of it.

DeMarquis Battle It's gone, Chris. It's gone. I'm like, where did our good music go?

Chris McDonald Listen, thankfully, T.I. is coming to save the day. I just feel it in my bones.

Announcer/Intro Voice Yeah.

Chris McDonald The rubber band man is coming back to save the day, at least in the rap world. I can't say for R&B. Well, you know what? No. There's an artist named Jaden. His name was Darius, not Darius McCreary. What was that baby's name? He was young. Oh, that's going to drive me. I cannot remember his real name, but he goes by Jada now because he's gotten older. But when I heard him singing, he has a new remix with Usher from his song. But if you listen to him in Close Your Eyes, he gives a mixture between Chris Brown, Ted and Campbell. Like he has that sound. um he's i would suggest that you go and take a listen to some of his music um i've been listening to him a lot lately too because he does have that uh that that new chris like when chris first hit the scene yes new chris brown sound yeah i love that i love that yeah i'm gonna have to take a listen for sure okay i got two more for you okay um netflix or hulu Can I do a both and?

DeMarquis Battle Yes, you can.

Chris McDonald I'm going to do a both and. I'm literally toggling between both of them right now because Hulu gives me that in real time TV experience, whereas Netflix gives me the flexibility to not feel tethered to my TV. Because I can always go back and binge watch stuff when I have those down moments where I feel like the Lord has released me to be able to really just escape and dig into TV. We're expecting some bad weather this week here in Arkansas. And I am anticipating these shows that my mom has already suggested to me that I'm going to binge watch when I have my downtime shut in where I'm at home all day.

DeMarquis Battle Listen, you talking about weather. You know what our temperature is right now? Where I'm at? Five degrees.

Chris McDonald I thought you were going to at least say like 18 or 20. Oh, my God. Five degrees.

DeMarquis Battle And it feels like negative 10. It's an Arctic blast that's happening. So it's affecting the whole country some, I believe. It is. So you're going to get a little bit. But yeah, no. And we don't shut down for school.

Chris McDonald That's why the Lord made. He knew I needed to be Southern. I didn't need to be Northern. Because my little soul couldn't take it.

DeMarquis Battle Oh, well, when you grow up in it, you get talents to it. But I tell you, we were almost done, as I shared with you earlier, pre-show. But once we get these youngins about the house, we moving to Kentucky, Tennessee, something. It's cold up here.

Chris McDonald I'm telling you. Oh my God. And here I am. See, that has humbled me real quick because here I am thinking that this 18, 20, 24 degree weather is like the worst. I'm like, oh, I can't wait for summer. Oh, I can't wait for the spring. And you up there dealing with five degrees. You know what? I'll take this little weather right here.

DeMarquis Battle Oh my goodness. But in the summer, it's beautiful. Michigan. You have to make it up here at some point, especially going up north. It is beautiful.

Chris McDonald Oh, I can't wait. I already have Chicago on my list, and I know Chicago ain't too far. Ain't too far. I have Chicago on my list for my birthday this year, so we're going to see.

DeMarquis Battle All right, Chi-Town. All right. Okay, last question for you. What's your favorite Bible translation, your favorite version?

Chris McDonald Oh. I'm starting to lean more into the NASB and NLT versions.

DeMarquis Battle Hmm. Okay. Okay.

Chris McDonald Yeah. CSB. Uh, I don't know. It's starting to be a little wanky sometimes. I don't know what's happening. Um, but yeah, no, I definitely, and I still lean into the CSB sometimes. I still use that Bible, but lately I've been more into NASB and NLT translations. And, uh,

DeMarquis Battle kjb is always in there on the you know on the roster yeah because it just you know my pastor says his grandpa always says sounds a little more like jesus i love that i love that is so like do you is there one that you that you use for study and is there one that you preach from um and then is the one that you do devotional from like what what's what's your go-to on that

Chris McDonald Yep. I typically preach from NLT. I feel like that's the best bridge between my scholastic understanding and their social understanding. So I use NLT for preaching. For study, like I said, I usually go between CSB and NASB. Okay.

DeMarquis Battle OK. All right. All right. So we've reached our last segment on the podcast. This has been so fruitful. What a fruitful conversation. I love it. So the last segment is the pavement ahead. And this is an outlook of digital ministry over, let's say, the next five to 10 years. So where where is this thing going? What do you see happening on the horizon?

Chris McDonald Great question. So what's been in my spirit lately is that the future is discipleship, not merely digital. We keep saying that the future is digital, but in reality, the future is discipleship using digital, but not necessarily digital. I really do believe, especially in 2026 going forward, that the Lord is challenging us and calling us more into community which is going to be a hybrid aspect, which means not necessarily just online, but not necessarily just in person. I really do feel like the Lord is calling us back into living room worship. Into those intimate spaces where you not only are studying the word together in ways where you can engage with it in real time, but that you can also engage in real life in real time. We are such a hyper-connected, yet highly disconnected culture. We are hyper-connected because everybody can see anything at the... you know, with the scroll of a fingertip, but we are so disconnected at the same time. And there's no way that true discipleship can happen if we are not going to do digital ministry well with that knowledge. So the future needs to be more discipleship using digital, but not necessarily shaping our culture to be the future is digital, if that makes sense.

DeMarquis Battle I love that perspective. You hit you hit on a few things there. I think the importance of discipleship, period. And that's what I hear bleeding through in your comment. is of utmost importance in this next window uh of time i think that uh unfortunately um we and when i say we i'm just talking about you know the church in a lot of ways have moved to this this This experience, whether it's the Sunday worship experience or whatever it may be, but I think where the transformation is going to occur and where it has always been is in the hotbed of discipleship. Um, and if we are not discipled, um, I think that we're in for a rude awakening, right? Um, you know, when they were in the upper room, um, the Holy Spirit didn't just fall on the 120, it fell on the 120 discipled individuals, right? right people that were discipled and and i think that's a component that has to be in play over the next decade um a huge emphasis and when i when i do study and i kind of think about the the the african-american church in the urban context you know a lot of us didn't have formal quote-unquote discipleship but what we did have was like straight up sunday school that's right like that was our discipleship that's right And so it wasn't that we didn't have it. It was just we had it in that very formalized academic Sunday school setting. And now most of our churches don't even have Sunday school no more. And so if we don't have that, and sometimes, I'm just going to be honest, we can be a little standoffish about going over people's houses. Yeah. Right. And that could be a cultural thing based upon a lot of, you know, trauma informed situations. Right. And so how do we how do we get our people? to embrace the importance of discipleship? Is it packaging? Is it the infrastructure that you talked about? You know, that is the struggle that I'm finding that a lot of ministries are trying to, you know, trying to reconcile with. And I don't know if you have thoughts on that at all.

Chris McDonald Oh, absolutely do. We have to be aware of the numbers. We shouldn't be bound by the numbers, but we need to be aware of statistics. And statistics show that Gen Z, especially young men, are the most hungry for faith, most hungry for spiritual formation. And it's juxtaposed against they're the most hungry, but they're the least present in church ministry. Right. But that number is growing. But overall evangelism evangelism of this age group is declining. How do you marry those two things? If their faith is growing, but evangelism is declining and they're not coming to church in droves, what do we do with that information? Well, that means that they're hungry, right? They're hungry for knowledge. They're hungry to know authentic faith. The reason why churches can't marry these numbers is because we're used to performative faith. We're used to doing an itinerary of church. We're used to have a scheduled emphasis of worship. We come in. We know what to expect. We know what's going to happen. And it's then. right yeah but digital ministry is going to be used to reach and evangelize to this this specific generation this age group to encourage them to connect first to find a place of trust to where then they can come into community believing that i belong in this place because you've made me feel like that i belong with christ right yeah you have to make them feel like there is a necessary need for their faith to marry with community they know that they need their faith especially as the world keeps turning and stuff gets crazier and crazier they're starting to realize i need my faith but do i need the craziness of what i think church is So for me, Demarcus, I think what it's going to start with is that the future of church has to start seeing the village different. Remember back in the day, we were coming to Sunday school and sometimes I was coming with my grandmother. Sometimes I was coming with my neighbor and her family. You know what I'm saying? Like we were all together because we were sharing household tasks and stuff. We're going to have to get back to that type of formation. Because Sunday school is great, but like you said, it's missing in a lot of churches. But even in the churches where it is not missing, it is Christian education. Christian education is a component of discipleship, but it is not discipleship. Because discipleship is relational. Because these people will come into Sunday school on a Sunday and come into this class and learn and talk in fellowship and then go back to struggling in real life Monday through Saturday.

DeMarquis Battle Yep, yep, yep. It's not just reading Tony Evans' men's book. Although that's great. It's a good book. It's actually... and you hinted at it is actually doing straight up life together. That, that is the most authentic, uh, discipleship experience is walking with someone doing life with someone. Um, and I think we've got to get back to that and, and, and really, uh, the technology is just, it's, it's an assist, um, right it's an assist and i think uh the hybrid is so critical and you mentioned that even right the the hybrid church model is so so critical but it is an enhancement not the the the full meal right it's it's it's a little bit of the the flavor the cherry on top it is the enhancement of it all And so I you know, we got to stop because we've given them way too much tonight. And what I want our audience to do is how can how can they connect with you, Chris? Give us your your contact.

Chris McDonald Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much again for this opportunity. It has been such a pleasure and a joy. to be able to share in this space. To connect with me, once you come on the other side of this, first of all, say hey in the comments or say hey when you listen to this or when you look at it on YouTube or wherever you get this content. But connect with me at Digital Church Impact dot com to book your discovery call or you can visit the chrismcdonald.com to connect with me all things engaging in ministry marketplace and mental health that those are the pillars to which I do life from And so you can engage with me for life coaching or you can engage with me to come and train. You can engage with me for some dope apparel. Right. At God on display. So you can also visit putting God on display dot com to get some dope faith based apparel where you can wear your faith and you can evangelize to others because it will always be a conversation starter.

DeMarquis Battle Oh, I love that, y'all. Listen, y'all, y'all don't know who was on this podcast. You're dealing with a powerhouse. You are dealing with just an anointed woman of God. And I am just overwhelmed by the amount of wisdom that was shared on this podcast today. Y'all make sure y'all go follow Chris McDonald, Digital Church Impact. Go ahead and get the faith-based apparel, the merch, all of that. Make sure you connect with her, especially if you're looking to do digital ministry or enhance what your church is already doing in the online space. So listen, we've reached the end of today's conversation, but there's much, much more that's coming on future episodes. So make sure that you connect with us, the Digital Pavement Podcast, where podcasts are offered. And I'm just excited to continue this thing where digital ministry and the urban church collide. God bless you all. We'll see you real soon.

Announcer/Intro Voice Thank you for joining us today. You've just experienced another episode of the digital pavement podcast. We are your source for the powerful stories of black and brown leaders at the intersection of faith and technology. This podcast is where digital ministry and the urban church collide. If this episode inspired you, please subscribe and share it with a fellow leader in your faith community.