Episode 3: The Hybrid Church & Building Digital Hubs

Narrator/Intro Voice Welcome to the Digital Pavement Podcast, where digital ministry and the urban church collide. Each episode features pioneers and ministry leaders from black and brown communities who use technology to shape the future of faith. From streaming worship to online outreach, discover stories, insights, and impact from those redefining digital ministry in our cities. Welcome to the Digital Pavement Podcast.

DeMarquis Battle what's going on family welcome to the digital pavement podcast where digital ministry and the urban church collide i am your host demarcus battle and we have an amazing podcast episode for you we have today as our guests None other than Pastor Jose Santiago, who serves as the lead pastor of Life on Mission Church. I'm just going to read his bio for you. He's earned his doctorate of ministry in discipleship, a master's in biblical studies and theology, and a law degree. Life on Mission Church was built not only for believers, but for seekers, skeptics, and anyone who's ever wondered if they could find their way back to God. His teaching style is relational, thoughtful and deeply personal. More like sitting down for a heartfelt conversation than listening to a performance. He doesn't preach to impress. He preaches to connect. I love that. And his messages are grounded in scripture, shaped by real life experiences and always centered on grace. Brothers and sisters all across the Digital Pavement podcast, let's welcome in my brother, Pastor Jose Santiago. What's going on, brother?

Jose Santiago What's going on, D? Always a pleasure, man. Thank you so much for having me.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah, absolutely, man. Listen, when we were putting this together and going through, you know, kind of our list of different individuals we wanted to invite to be a part of this, you were certainly toward the top of that list. And we're just so thankful that you're able to sit down with us and have this conversation. You know, we've done this just, you know, in our own free time, just chopping it up, talking about, you know, the Lord, talking about digital ministry. And so I'm excited to be here with you. to have this conversation and just to let our audience know what we're going to be talking about here uh we're going to focus on the hybrid church uh with kind of a sub thought of creating digital hubs and that's that's very uh That's very powerful and a lot to it. And we'll get to that in just a moment. But before we do that, I just want to, you know, just inquire of you, man. How's your day been going? What's been going on in your world? Just give us a little tidbit on what's happening with Jose.

Jose Santiago No, man, it's been a great day. You know, just like you, ministry for me is kind of an umbrella of different things. I serve as a chaplain, lead pastor at a church. We have our digital ministries on Twitch and we do local small groups and coaching in that area. So it's kind of a little bit everywhere, but we kind of see it. It's one big ministry. I'm wearing several hats, just like most of them, just like you. And I'm sure most of the people you invite here onto the podcast. especially in the digital space. So today has just been a little bit of that, you know, December. So we're kind of wrapping up the year, doing what I call our start, stop, continue for the year, right? What should we start doing that we weren't doing? What should we stop doing that we were doing? And what should we continue that's been working? So we're kind of doing that now towards the end of the year to plan forward for 2026.

DeMarquis Battle Wow. Start, stop and continue. Right. Is that how it works out?

Jose Santiago Yes, sir.

DeMarquis Battle Start, stop and continue. Now, that's that's really good, man. I think I think as followers of Jesus, you know, he would often steal away and just to get in a place of solace, to reflect, to. be replenished to be revived to be recharged and i think that that start stop continue is necessary um not only for those that are working in ministry but just people in general right you know we need to we need to be able to reflect on how this year has gone what should we you know start doing stop doing and continuing to do so thank you for sharing that quick nugget we we haven't even gotten deep into this yet you're already dropping gems brother you know So yes, sir. Yes, sir. Hey, so man, I appreciate that, you know, and I will say I'm slightly jealous because my brother Jose is, is down in the sunshine state. He's down in Florida and I'm here in Michigan in 15 degree weather with five inches of snow. And so what I will say is it's definitely December and the Christmas season is, is apt for, for snow. But, uh, But yeah, man, before we get into the main topic, I always think it's important, especially those minorities, those that come from black and brown households that are serving in that context of ministry. And certainly we minister to all people, but we have unique experiences. And I would be remiss if I didn't get kind of like your trailblazer story. We want to be able to highlight, hey, where did you start? How did God work in your heart and bring you to the place of serving in his kingdom? And I think that your trailblazer story would be a blessing for those that are listening to here. So kind of give us your beginning, your Genesis.

Jose Santiago Sure. Well, I'd be remiss if I didn't shout out born and raised in the Bronx in New York City. That's where my story begins. And, you know, we talk about urban environments and the urban neighborhood, meaning digital church and what we're doing. So that's where I began. I was born and raised in the South Bronx. and family, focused on education, and kind of worked my way through school, through high school, went to Boston College undergrad, did my thing there, then went to law school, Fordham University in New York City, was a prosecutor for a few years, so I was always focused on, the reason I say all those things is not self-aggrandizing, but just say most of my life, just being where we grew up, I was so focused on getting out, so focused on changing my environment that my focus became inward. It was like, what can I do for me to change me, to change my environment? And so I lived most of my life like that. And even though I grew up, I grew up in a Catholic household. I was an altar boy, did all those things. you know my relationship with god early on was what i would call transactional right i kind of the way i was raised and the way many folks from my experience were raised you do good he got you you do bad he's gonna get you right that's that's what i was taught and so therefore that what i would call today false gospel it did not prepare me for the winters when they came so fast forward my father passed away He died of congestive heart failure when I was 22. I was my first year in law school and I wasn't ready for that. You know, it was kind of sudden. And when that happened, I turned my back on God because as far as I was concerned, I did all the things right. We were good kids. We went to church every Sunday. We prayed. We gave what little we had. I was an altar boy. I was a choir. Did all that stuff. And this is what happens. You know, my father served. He did things for the church. He was a handyman. Did things for free for them. So that false gospel that I was taught, it didn't prepare me. I was not discipled, right, to be able to weather those storms. And when that happened, I turned my back to him. So I lived a life that was self-serving. Everything was for me. I was a lawyer for almost 20 years. Everything was about glitz and glamour. Being on CNN Español, being on going to country clubs, living that life, the big house, all that stuff. We did those things. If, you know, mid-20s Jose would have talked back to 15-year-old Jose. 15-year-old Jose would have been like, wow. We did all that. Well, we did. But life started lifing as it does right as you get older. I had a daughter that was born with cerebral palsy. And as a father, as a man, when there's something that you have no control over, it humbles you.

DeMarquis Battle Right. Yeah.

Jose Santiago And that experience, there was nothing I could do other than love my daughter. Right. But there had to be something more I could do. And I knew there was someone I can go to to help me through that pain, that that sense of weakness. Right. It's just inability to perform, whatever you want to call it. But I was at that point, my anger turned to shame. There was no way I could go back. And like many people, I think I succumbed to that voice that said, really, bro? After all that trash you talked, all those things you did, turn your back on him. You think he's going to take you back? Sure enough, I said, you're right. I ain't going back. I fell into a big depression, anxiety, forced to give up my law practice for a while. I just had to quit. Didn't tell anyone I had depression because God forbid, you know, the oldest of five and you can't show vulnerability. It's hard enough for people that look like you and me to make it. into the room where decisions happen when it comes to you know corporate america if i open up my mouth and say something that's all gonna go away right that's that's that was the impression i got yeah so it got to the point where you know truth be told you know this is uh we preach vulnerability right i was at a place where i didn't want to live anymore you know i um and i had everything you know that the world tells you to get I had all those things get to the top of the mountain. And all I thought about was like, like Ecclesiastes, like, is this really it? Um, this is it. I don't want anything. I don't want, I don't want any part of it, you know, but I worked with my wife. She wasn't a person that grew up in church, but she all of a sudden started looking for God. Right. And she's looking for him. I help her find the church. I make my way there. Long story short, I find my way back to God. I confess to him, uh, you know, Can't believe I was willing to forfeit this gift you gave me. Sorry I turned my back on you all those years ago. I need you. And confessed with my mouth, accepted him as my Lord and Savior. And then, I'm not going to say life got easier overnight, but finally I knew I wasn't alone, right? And I knew... Because I believed in his promises. And I read the end of the book. I was like, I'm going to be good. And slowly but surely, I started getting back into a good relationship with him. Like anything compared to marriage, I said yes. And then we learned to live with each other. Right after that, we learned more about each other.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah.

Jose Santiago I started doing small group ministry at my church, joining production and just being involved. Right. And that's the first time I saw what which we'll get to later. First time I saw what relationship and community could do to further spiritual transformation. And I got my master's in biblical theology because I was like, if I'm going to do this, I want to do it right and kind of like tear everything down and build it back up the right way. My wife and I did that together. She knew we were going to plant the church. I told her she was crazy. That ain't happening.

DeMarquis Battle I was too in love with the lifestyle I had.

Jose Santiago So as some of us want to do, I negotiated with God. Like I ain't going into ministry, but I'll bring church to work, right? I'll bring church to the workplace. And so I started doing things. I was general counsel at a national HR company. And I started just being that person. Little did I know, just being that shepherd, that person with a pastoral heart in the workplace. And what I notice is, as you know, and all believers know, when you actually do. Surrender to God. He changes your heart and the things you loved before you don't necessarily love anymore. You start loving what he loves.

DeMarquis Battle That's right.

Jose Santiago And what I noticed, I started loving people more. I started loving more specifically building people up. I love pouring into them, mentoring them, coaching them. And so I went from being a lawyer in this space. to primarily being someone more focused on professional development, leadership coaching, things like that. And my career kind of changed from the CEO was like, dude, I need a lawyer who's like a go-getter and aggressive. And I just wasn't that person anymore. I wasn't that guy that was going to bury language on page 72 of this contract, hoping that someone doesn't see it. That just wasn't me anymore. You know, so thankfully, I had a good relationship with the executive ownership of the company I was at, and they owned a bunch of companies throughout the U.S. and they created a position for me, a leadership and management trainer and developer. And so that allowed me that allowed me the opportunity to tackle among other things that became critical later. I didn't realize that God was preparing me for a future in digital ministry. One of the things I had to tackle was a national mentoring program where we had to figure out how to create a space in the digital world, a digital space where we can have a CEO in Oklahoma.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah.

Jose Santiago Mentor a director in New York. Right. Anyone that's been involved in mentorship knows that there's. a level of relationship that has to be built up for that to be effectively happening. So how do we do that digitally? So, you know, creating a program like that, that was successful, that grew year over year. Little did I know that God was just giving me the tools that I would need later on. So fast forward, we're in Florida now. it's winter of 23 my wife and i uh have a cancer scare she is showing all the signs of breast cancer uh the signs were so uh blatant that while we were waiting for the results of the biopsy the doctors were talking about the treatment that we will be doing it wasn't even a maybe it was like this is what we're gonna do this is how we're gonna attack this um and my wife was you know cool as a cucumber her faith in the lord has always been something that inspired me yes um i however was a wreck for two reasons one is my wife my mother my kids oh yeah um there's no way i could do this without her right that's what's going through my mind and secondly i was getting flashbacks of what happened to my father and what i noticed that my prayer this time um well first of all i decided to fast and if you know me you see me me and fasting don't usually become the same sentence that's just not a thing right and so every day everywhere i look at all my social media stuff is fast fast fast so i'm like you know what I really need some discernment here. I really need to get closer to the Lord. I need to hear his voice. Let me fast. So I fast. And on day three of the fast, it's two in the morning. I can't sleep. Thinking about all the things I just explained to you. And I just fall down on my knees. And I was like, God. If this is your will, then so be it. I don't want her to suffer. I'm praying for my kids. I don't want them to lose their relationship with him. Yeah. I thought about what happened to me as a child, as a 22-year-old, I should say. And also, I thought about where I've come in my faith and looking back at my father and thinking, if I lost her, Father God, don't let me go. Don't let me do that again. Don't let me turn my back on you or leave you or forsake you because I felt you foretook me. And that in retrospect, I can see that my heart posture this time was so different than last time. I was in a different space. And because of that, I approached instead of running from him, I ran towards him.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah.

Jose Santiago And in that moment, I knew what he's wanted for me, which is ministry. But I was too caught up in my income and lifestyle. And, you know, growing up when you grow up broke. Right. When you grow up, you grow up in there in the city without.

DeMarquis Battle Come on.

Jose Santiago And when you get you, you don't want to let go. No, sir. Come on. Right. But what I realized is that I needed to die to those things, right? In order to then replace what I've been idolizing so long with the only one that deserves to be worshiped. And so in that moment, I told God, I was like, regardless of how this turns out with my wife, I know what you want of me in my life. I'm yours. It's a wrap. Do with my life as you wish. And the kids were not, that was about 2, 3 in the morning by the time I was done praying. At 8 a.m., my wife gets a phone call from the doctor saying, biopsy came back negative. You don't have cancer. Like, that was just all these other things that she had that were minor conditions that was masking everything to make it look like breast cancer. And she calls me and tells me that. And I hadn't told her about the fasting or prayer or whatever. And I was just, I was happy, first and foremost. But then there was the realization, like, God was like, all right, get ready. We're about to go on a ride, you know. And that was Christmas time, December 23 in January, 2020. I had a conversation with my wife about all this and told her what God wants of me. And she was the first to be like, so when we start, what are we doing this? She was on board. And as you know, when it comes to ministry, you've got to have a united front. And so when she gave me the thumbs up. I was going to be obedient to God anyway, but that just gave me the, like, that just gets like, it greased the skids, right? Like, all right, we're doing this. I ended up looking for a way to get into ministry. I decided to register, she and I both, to get our doctorates in ministry. And I applied for a chaplaincy role that I saw that was workplace ministry. I was like, oh, I could do this. It's like an HR slash ministry. I was like, this is exactly what I've been doing. Yeah. And I applied within weeks. I got the job. And then I told my boss and they gave me a long leash, a long runway, I should say, to kind of off board from my current role so I could save up money and pay off some stuff. They were very, very supportive. Thankfully, my immediate boss had a friend that just went through a similar transition, felt the calling and surrendered to that. And she was like, oh, I know what you're going through. I've been there. So you take the time that you need, you know? And yeah. And so I made that choice then. And then I joined the Corporate Chaplains of America by summer of 2014. And then did that for almost a year. And then in around Easter, April of the following year, we planted Life on Mission Church.

UNKNOWN Wow.

DeMarquis Battle Wow. Wow, man, that is an amazing trailblazing story. I mean, taking us all the way back to your origins in the South Bronx. And I also, you know, grew up in an urban environment. And, you know, for for us. we're so inward looking coming from humble beginnings and it's almost kind of like a fight or flight sort of deal. Right. And so once we make it out, quote unquote, we're so inward facing because we don't want to go back to where we were. Right. But you know, what you end up finding is yes, that was a humble beginning, but you know, that, that wasn't the, the main, uh, impetus or issue of our brokenness. That's sin, straight up. And regardless if you come from the hood or you come from wealth, wherever side of the tracks you're from, wherever you're born, it doesn't matter. We're all born in shaping and iniquity, right? Sin, you know, we need Jesus, right? And I think that has always been the missing link for everyone as they're navigating through life. And so you coming to that point, And realizing that through a divine interruption, I've been teaching that with my family Bible study. We've been talking about divine interruptions, these moments in life where something tragic might happen, something difficult might happen. There might be a change in direction, a pivot, a shift. And oftentimes. that is god working out these events ultimately for our good right we don't understand it in the moment right it's not that he wishes or wills negative things to happen but he uses those those circumstances those situations to Kind of move us into the lane we're supposed to be in. Right. And I could just see the Lord just sitting up in his place in eternity, looking down on Jose saying one way or another, I'm going to capture your heart. I'm going to capture your heart. And if it if it causes these situations to to occur and you finally get to that point of submitting to his will, then that's just what it's going to have to be. You know, and I think we all for those of us who are called to ministry certainly deal with that quite a bit. Just that releasing it to Jesus and just saying, as you said, just do with my life as you will. And so, listen, I want to thank you for your transparency, your vulnerability in sharing that story, because I think that's where transformation occurs is when we're vulnerable and when we're transparent. So, all right, we're going to take a quick commercial break and then we're going to enter into our next segment. And so, listeners, family. check this out hey what's going on family demarcus battle host of the digital pavement podcast and this episode is powered by the church digital the church digital resources digital missionaries and pioneers to make disciples in digital spaces So if you sense a calling in your life for being a missionary in digital spaces, or if you want to take your ministry through the digital age, connect with us at thechurch.digital and join our Discord server or our WhatsApp community. We look forward to connecting with you real soon. All right. So listen, I failed to mention that the Digital Pavement Podcast is a part of the Church Digital Streaming Network. For the next few weeks and months, you're going to be seeing a number of different shows and podcasts and video game streams that are going to be occurring. And we want you to connect with all of that content that's going to be produced through the Church Digital Streaming Network. And if you haven't connected with the Church Digital as an organization, oh my goodness, especially if you're interested in becoming a digital missionary or if you're doing digital church or just content creation, make sure that you visit the church.digital and connect with the team over there. You will not regret it. Pastor Jose even has some experience and some connection with that group. And so he can attest to that as well. Make sure, again, you check out the church that digital. All right, Pastor Jose. Now, let's let's keep this party moving. We're going to go to our next segment that's entitled The Blueprint. This is our segment where we will unpack strategies for doing digital ministry. And maybe, you know, we can even talk a little bit about strategies in regards to the hybrid church and even hint on some of those digital hubs. I know we've talked quite a bit on what that looks like and how impactful that could be. So what are some strategies that you're mulling over that have been working for you as you've been serving in the digital space?

Jose Santiago So, like, first and foremost, I think. If you're listening to this podcast, it may be that you already have come to the realization that digital is not only an important part of ecclesiology, right? And the Church, capital C, today and moving forward. But maybe you have your doubts or maybe you... Are still mulling over what's what's digital role in the church. Right. And I often like to point folks to this very brief verse in the book of John. You got your digital Bibles. You look at John chapter four, verse four. And this is out of the ESV. It says, and he had to pass through Samaria. Context being Jesus going from Judea to Galilee. And that one verse that stands alone as verse four. And God doesn't, everything he says, right? Everything he inspires in his word, there's a purpose to it. There's no throwaways in this.

DeMarquis Battle That's right.

Jose Santiago It says, and he had to pass through Samaria. Now, we could easily dismiss that as just a geographical realization that he has to go through Samaria. But when we understand the historical context at the time and the relationship between the Samaritans and the Jewish community, then we would remember and understand that going through Samaria, that's just not something people did. That's right. They went around. They would rather incur the danger, right? And obviously the inconvenience, to say the least, to go around Samaria to get from Judea to Galilee. So when it says that he had to pass through Samaria, it's less about geography and more about a divine appointment.

DeMarquis Battle That's right.

Jose Santiago It's more about his choice to go through Samaria.

UNKNOWN Yeah.

Jose Santiago And if we remember, it's through that voyage in Samaria that we have the woman at the well, right? Probably one of the most profound encounters that Jesus has when he first even tells someone, yes, the Messiah is me, right? So this is important. What happens in Samaria is such a huge part of Jesus' ministry. but also the fact that he chose to go there, right? He chose to go through a place that most folks said, that's not for us. That's not where we should be. We shouldn't be there. That's the dark place and we're the light and we're gonna go around. And Jesus says, no, that's exactly where I got to go. That's exactly where I have to go through to be obedient to my father and to fulfill my calling and the ministry that I have. Right. And I would submit that to those of you that are weary about digital. Maybe the digital space is your Samaria, right? Maybe that is the space that you need to go through, right? In order to fulfill the calling, in order for you to do what you've been called to do. And maybe there's a woman at the well that you're missing, right? As part of your ministry because of your indecisiveness or, you know, your hesitance with going to digital space. And I say digital, but that could be anything. That could be a geographic location. That could be a part of your family that you don't associate with. That could be an old neighborhood that you choose not to go back to. Whatever it is. We all have a Sumerian. We need to reflect on what that is. For many folks, that's digital. And so I would just say, whatever. I'd be remiss if I didn't throw that out there.

DeMarquis Battle Man, that is heavy. That's very impactful. You know, that... That moment in Samaria with the woman at the well is one of the greatest moments of discipleship that occur in the New Testament in so much. That woman becomes one of the greatest evangelists because she goes right into the neighborhood and says, come meet a man who told me everything about myself and flips that whole area upside down. And who's to say that your draw, your pulling, your calling to your Samaria, perhaps even the digital space, it's not just to go over there and to have a platform, to have influence, but to literally reach someone, change someone's life who might ultimately do even greater works greater things by your witness in the digital space so i i love that example that that's powerful man and you know there's so many things that we can that we can think about as it pertains to you know blueprint strategies for serving in digital i think i think it you know first sitting with oneself really understanding the call of god on your life And what I joke about is those who are serving in this space often just end up like being here. Like, you know, once you start meeting other people that are doing this, hey, how'd you get started? How'd you get started? Man, somehow we just got over here. And that's the beauty about it, man, is that, you know. And once you start doing this and serving in whatever capacity, whether it be on Twitch or if it be on Facebook, YouTube, whatever platform that you're utilizing, even if you're doing it in in the DMs. Right. And just, you know, praying for people. You know, it's just amazing how God will use the small things, even the foolish things to confound the wise. So, man, that that's awesome. That's that's some good stuff. And I and I want everybody to take note of that. What is your Samaria? Right. What is that pool that you're filling? And it very well could be the digital space. So listen, I'm going to shift us into our next segment. But before that, I want to air just another quick commercial. So family, go ahead and check this out. Hey, what's going on family? Dr. Demarcus Battle, co-founder of Bible with the Battles. And this episode of the Digital Pavement Podcast is sponsored by Bible with the Battles. Listen, Bible with the Battles is an online preaching and teaching ministry whose mission is to help you to hear the word, believe the word, and apply the word of God to your life. And our vision is simple yet profound. Revival begins at home. That's your physical house and all the inhabitants, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, children, brothers, sisters, the whole family. And it is your spiritual house. Revival begins there. And so we just want to share with you that Bible with the Battles is here for the sole reason to help you go to the next level in your faith. Visit our website at Bible with the Battles dot com. or follow us on all of our social media platforms under the handle BibleWithTheBattles. I'll leave you again with our vision, which is simple yet profound. Revival begins at home. Man, I am just so privileged to serve with my wife, you know, Jose. He serves with his wife as well with Life on Mission Church. And, you know, it's just a beautiful thing when family can come together, husband and wife, and serve the Lord with a purpose. to communicate the gospel of Jesus Christ. And I get the honor and the privilege to do that with my boo. This is what I call her, right? And so it's been amazing. It's been an amazing journey of co-founding Bible with the Battles. And like the commercial said, revival for us, it begins at home. And so we get to do that digitally by sharing the gospel, impacting families, husbands and wives and their children, ministering from that lens and that perspective. So If you haven't connected with us, go ahead and visit our Web site, Bible with the battles dot com. Or you can follow us on all of our social media platforms under the handle Bible with. the battles all right pastor jose listen this is our time for rapid fire questions we're gonna we're gonna relax a little bit and have a little bit of fun with this thing so uh just bear with me i'm gonna ask you about four or five questions and i just want to get your honest answer on these all right so just keep it 100 keep it a book all right here we go first question apple or android

Jose Santiago Apple. No green bubbles over here.

DeMarquis Battle Nope, man. None of them green bubbles. We Blue Bubble team all day. Apple, I'm with you, brother. I can't do it. I can't switch to a Samsung Galaxy. I can't do none of that.

UNKNOWN Nope.

DeMarquis Battle I'm in the Apple iOS ecosystem. Yes, sir. Okay. How about this? Your favorite social media platform?

Jose Santiago oh man um i gotta say twitch if we're if we count that as social media then yeah twitch because i think it combines the best of all those things right and biggest thing being community yeah i love that i love that uh jose um

DeMarquis Battle Twitch. I'm new to Twitch. I started a channel a couple years ago, but really didn't put any effort into it. But this year in 2025, I've reintroduced myself to the platform. And you're right. What I find about Twitch that's different than most other platforms is the community. People are so open to being friendly and connecting and sharing, especially believers that are on the platform. But even those that are not believers, even those individuals are just open to being in community and just kicking it and having a good time. And so it's a really, I would say, a relaxed platform. But very community driven. And so I love Twitch now. You know, I'm on board with it. I promote it and make sure we'll have in the show notes our Twitch channels. You'll be able to connect with Pastor Jose and as well as Life on Mission and myself.

Jose Santiago But Twitch is dope for sure. For sure.

DeMarquis Battle All right. What's playing on Twitch?

Jose Santiago uh on your music rotation right now what you're listening to oh man it's gonna it's gonna jump back and forth between some brandon lake and k-pop demon hunters yo if i'm keeping it real with you you know it's going from like uh you know uh daddy's dna to to golden yeah yeah soda pop that's what's happening if i'm being honest okay so let me say something about k-pop demon hunters right

DeMarquis Battle Earlier today, I was just on YouTube, just kind of going through YouTube shorts. And this YouTube short comes up of an HBCU, Historically Black College University, marching band. If you don't know... google it okay so they were playing the k-pop uh demon demon hunters or whatever you call it their whatever that theme whatever good song that's connected with that uh they were playing it and was killing it now i've never heard it before but i'm sure if the hbcu band was playing it it must be it must be killer it must be killer yeah oh man that's that's that's good that's good okay here's another one netflix or hulu netflix better originals in my opinion okay okay although although hulu is starting to up the ante On the originals, Paradise. Have you seen that? I haven't. Okay. Season two comes out in February. You got to check out Paradise. That's a Hulu original. They got some good stuff. But no, I agree. Speaking of K-pop, you know, I love K-dramas. that are on Netflix right now. And I don't watch the dub English version. I watch the Korean version.

Jose Santiago That's crazy you say that. My wife, that's all she watches now. Really? Is K-dramas. And apparently it's a thing. A lot of folks are like, yo, the drama's good. They don't drag out seasons and seasons and seasons. They can get to the things that comes to fruition. They just get storytelling.

DeMarquis Battle Amazing storytelling, man. I am blown away by the depth of what they are producing for entertainment in the K-drama genre. It's amazing. So, yeah, when Wipey's sitting down checking it out, you might want to get some popcorn and sit next to her and check that out. It's good stuff.

Jose Santiago Good stuff.

DeMarquis Battle Okay. All right. Last question. Favorite Bible version.

Jose Santiago Ooh, that's twofold for me. I study the ESV. I preach from the NLT. The reason being is that most of the folks I preach for, I serve, are not very familiar with the word. And so the NLT is just easily accessible in that regards. However... when i feel that there's another translation that maybe gets to point home in a more uh like i guess intentional way and i'll i'll bring in another another uh translation there but i study esv because it's just straight you know uh right from the greek and then i preach from the nlt just to make it uh comprehensive to the to those that i'm reaching for or serving

DeMarquis Battle No, that's a good strategy. That's real good. You work with the word for word translation and then study from that. And then when you're ministering to more diverse crowds and those that you're serving that are growing in their faith, you use the NLT, which is a more thought for thought translation. Correct. Right.

Jose Santiago Translation versus a transliteration.

DeMarquis Battle There you go. Yep. Yep. No, I love that. I do a similar thing. I'm an ESV guy. Although I've been doing a lot more with NIV. Some of the newer NIV works a bit closer with the Greek and the Hebrew now. And the study Bibles that I work with, I usually do that too. And then I do a similar thing with NLT from time to time. NASB I'll do every now and again too. All right. So so let's go ahead and just kind of conclude our conversation today with our last segment, which is the pavement ahead. In this segment, we we take an outlook. We take a future prophetic glance at what digital ministry. could, should, would maybe look like in the next five to 10 years. So just kind of as you've been sitting with serving in the digital space and perhaps you've already seen some things, some changes and some things on the horizon, what do you sense is the move forward as it pertains to digital ministry?

Jose Santiago Sure. I would say What applies to both the digital church and even the traditional brick and mortar church is whomever prioritizes and effectively builds relationships will see the fruit and have successful spiritual transformation in their community. All the research I've done in my doctorate, that was my focus was on digital discipleship. And all the research, if I had to boil it down to one word, it's relationships. if you build relationships then you will be in a position where you can disciple to think that you can disciple without a relationship is folly it just that's just scripture shows us that right you need to have that if if you're going to hold me accountable if you're going to correct me if you're going to if there's going to be a moment for rebuke If you're going to sit down with me and have that serious talk, then I need to know that you have my best interest at heart. In order to know that you have my best interest at heart, I need to trust you. In order for me to trust you, I have to have built a relationship. And so we want to get to that place where we can have those tough conversations, where we can play our part in someone's spiritual transformation. And we must prioritize relationship. And when I look around at the church overall, physical or digital, because I think it's a misnomer to say that... Well, let me phrase this. It is an incomplete answer to say that the traditional building church is dying or dead and that everything is moving to digital. I disagree in this sense. The traditional churches that have failed to embrace and prioritize relationships. are dying. Yeah, okay. Because there are many traditional churches that I work with that are thriving, not just sustaining, but thriving. And the difference is that they prioritize and are intentional about building relationships with the community that they serve.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah, let me, can I chime in on that a bit? Absolutely. I think that the prioritization of relationships within the church could open an opportunity for more digital expression. Absolutely. And I, that's where I think the disconnect is, is that when you, if, when you prioritize relationships, that, that kind of says, okay, I want to remove any barrier to the relationship not functioning well and if time is a barrier how can i remove that Well, possibly by inserting some type of digital element or expression. That's like, okay, let's remove time barrier. Let's remove space barrier. Let's remove all of these barriers. And one way to do that, just one way, but a very efficient way is to insert digital, right? And so, hey, we maybe have an in-person gathering and this will speak to our hybrid conversation. Maybe we'll have an in-person gathering on a Sunday or Wednesday. And, you know, maybe I live on the far west side of town and you live maybe 40 minutes away. And maybe we're not able to, during the week, come for another small group gathering. Well, could that small group gathering be in a digital space? Right. Could there be devotionals being sent every morning via a social media platform, via an email newsletter, via a direct message, via a text, a texting feature? Right. Could there be breakout sessions in a Zoom meeting? What other things can we do to foster community and relationships? And I think digital is huge for that. So as I say that, in my mind, that speaks to the concept of digital hubs. right and so you know you have a little bit of experience and even within the dna of uh lom uh life on mission you have an expanding vision on that so could you just briefly just kind of touch on just a response of what i just kind of communicated and then the concept of digital hubs absolutely um the idea of building uh hubs

Jose Santiago Really started with as we reflected on what the church was when it at its inception. Right. It takes us to Acts 2, right. Verses 42 to 47, where we where we see that the church got they gathered in each other's homes. They broke bread. They listened to the apostles' teachings. They basically lived, loved, and laughed together, right? Sold their possessions so that others wouldn't go with need. And so if that's how the church began, if that was the inception of the church, then the question is, do we still have that? And oftentimes when we look around, the answer is no, right? I feel that we're making progress towards that. And ironically... The I think the leading force behind that are folks you wouldn't guess. And that's millennials and Gen Z. Yeah. Right. There was a recent study by Barna that showed that over I think it's like 54 percent or more of millennials and Gen Z. actually prefer embodied or in-person community if and only if relationship building and having an intentional pathway towards relationship is prioritized yeah right um the reason i say that is because when we talk about a hub and we're speaking hybrid um Can you build community and a relationship in the digital space? Absolutely. But I will submit to you that in the digital space, if we fall for the trap of creating content simply for consumption, without having an intentional and proactive approach towards relationship, then you're doomed to suffer the same fate as a lot of these traditional churches that are closing, right, and falling by the wayside. And in digital, because of, like you said, the issue, the challenge of distance, the challenge of being able to do things at the same time, it's okay to have an asynchronous or synchronous together time or devotionals, Bible studies, But what are we doing to build a relationship among and between the people participating in those programs?

DeMarquis Battle Yeah.

Jose Santiago Right.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah.

Jose Santiago And so the idea of the hub is to say that as we can have corporate gathering, corporate worship, Bible studies, all these things right at the corporate level in the digital space. However, there needs to be some sort of small group or intentional gathering in our homes, and I'll say homes in air quotes. It could be online, right? If you don't have folks around you, online is fine, but it has to be intentional about building relationships with several others. where you can talk about your day where you can become familiar with each other's rhythms emotional physical spiritual to know when they're off right yeah where you can engage in active listening that's more than we're just with the ears right yeah where you can where you can mentor and be mentored by others and where you can create a space that allows for vulnerability and where you if you're a leader of a group like this where you can demonstrate that where you can go first and not only talk about um i call them the i remember when statements as pastors and leaders we tend to because we don't want to come across like like that that we still have issues we talked about i remember when you know uh back in the day before i was saved Well, I would submit that some of those I remember when's should turn into I am statements.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah.

Jose Santiago Right. And we need to talk about what I am going through. This is where God's showing up in my life right now. This is where I need you guys to pray for me. This is where I need to be poured into as well as being and I'm pouring into you in order to create those environments. If you're going to do it digitally, I would argue, I would submit you have to work twice as hard at least. right if the pandemic taught us anything those of us that were coaching and and and mentoring in in in corporate in the corporate world during pandemic how do we manage people remotely? How do we lead people remotely? How do we engage them and keep them engaged? All those things that we learned through that, through that, uh, pandemic and through that challenge in the secular space, it applies here too.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah.

Jose Santiago Right. And that's biblical, right? We're, we're, we're looking at James, right? Like, um, he, we, we need to be quick to listen, slow to speak, right? Slow to become angry.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah.

Jose Santiago Um, and so like, how do we listen? How do we build that in the digital space?

DeMarquis Battle Right.

Jose Santiago And I say all this to say that the hub is not an either or. Oftentimes I find myself when I'm among traditional church constituents, it's digital sucks, digital this, that's up to them. Come on, man. And then when I'm among digital brothers and sisters, traditional church is dead. They don't know what they're doing. And it's become an either or conversation. yeah but what i would say the future of our church is both end yeah right yeah this is one church with multiple doors yeah and for some are going to walk in through the digital door some are going to walk in through the wooden door right the traditional door But the question is, are we creating an environment where those relationships and that spiritual transformation can occur regardless of which door they come in through? And are we encouraging, right, the assimilation from one side to the other? Is digital a separate group or ministry within your church? Or is it just one space where your church family can hang out and be, right? And it cannot be either or. It has to be both and. We have community builders online who also participate in a local body small group. We have folks that are part of an in-person community who attend our Twitch Bible study. Right. This has to be all part of one big formula towards the same end goal. It has to be both ends.

DeMarquis Battle Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful. I love I love both ends perspective. It's not it's not either or. Right. It's not one greater than the other. It's it's both. And yeah. And the sooner that we can embrace that both end statement, the more powerful we can be to do that Acts 2, to do that Matthew 28, to do all of what we've actually been called to do. You know, so I think that's just just amazing. And I think that really the because of the accessibility, that's another dynamic. Right. because of accessibility that digital provides. I just think it's an amazing tool that can be a both and, that can be coupled too. And let's just keep it real. Like, you know, the church has been around for, you know, 2000 years. So apparently it's been doing pretty good, you know, doing what it's been doing, right? But now how can we continue to expand and grow and, and see momentum in what God has called us to do. The last thing I'll just kind of speak on, and it's interesting because your church is called Life on Mission. And what we're seeing in, I hate to say, you know, quote unquote, the secular world, is that people are coming together around mission and like interests, right? It's almost like they're they're ahead of the curve on this this model of relationship being built and developed through this hub idea. Right. They're already doing hubs around, you know, the running club. They're doing hubs, you know, over painting, doing hubs over food groups and doing all of these special interests and coming together and actually doing what we call community. Right. And so we would be remiss if we. did not open ourselves up to the idea of a life on mission, right? Especially within Gen Z, they're moved by getting on mission. And so what more should we expect from the body of Christ than to get on mission to do what we've been called to do? So listen, Jose, this has been a blast, man. I want to thank you for your time being on the Digital Pavement podcast. And before we conclude, man, just share with the audience, how can they connect with you?

Jose Santiago Oh, you can find me on our website, Life on Mission Church. It's lifeonmission.church. You can find us there. On our socials, you can find me at every social is Romans 1014XP. That's, I said that kind of quick, Romans 1014XP. And that is on Twitch, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, all the socials. You can find us there. Um, and, uh, and yeah, and, and also if you don't mind my saying this Saturday, I'm also part of a ministry called the blessing boat. And, uh, it, I view that as kind of almost like a, a church planting for Twitch world. What we do is. We help new and upcoming Twitch streamers, content creators that want to use this platform for kingdom work. And we help them get established, right? We help them navigate all the beginnings and build their communities, build their platforms so they can go and fulfill the personal ministry that God put on their heart to do. So once a month, we do a stream, a raid event where we support them and help them build those communities. So we'll be on the blessing boat on Twitch this weekend.

DeMarquis Battle Awesome, man. Well, Pastor Jose, I want to thank you again for your time. This was such an impactful conversation. Make sure, TDPP audience, make sure that you connect with Pastor Jose, Life on Mission Church. Check that out. Romans 10... 14... 14 xp there we go romans 10 14 xp uh make sure you connect with them on that social media handle and make sure that you follow the digital pavement podcast on all of the platforms that podcasts are available certainly on youtube and uh you know this is this has been an amazing conversation um so thank you for joining the digital payment podcast we're Digital ministry and the urban church collide. God bless you all. We'll see you real soon.

Narrator/Intro Voice Thank you for joining us today. You've just experienced another episode of the digital pavement podcast. We are your source for the powerful stories of black and brown leaders at the intersection of faith and technology. This podcast is where digital ministry and the urban church collide. If this episode inspired you, please subscribe and share it with a fellow leader in your faith community.