Episode 2: Pioneering A Digital Church Movement (The Digital Pavement Podcast)

Welcome to the Digital Pavement Podcast, where digital ministry and the urban church collide. Each episode features pioneers and ministry leaders from black and brown communities who use technology to shape the future of faith. From streaming worship to online outreach, discover stories, insights, and impact from those redefining digital ministry in our cities. Welcome to the Digital Pavement Podcast.

What's going on, family? Welcome to the Digital Pavement Podcast, where digital ministry and the urban church collide. I am your host, Demarcus Battle. And listen, we have a fantastic show planned for you on today. We have an amazing guest with us, Dr. Deidre Campbell Jones is the pastor of the House of His Glory. She is also the wife of Terrence C. Jones, the mother of their son, Justice, and the CEO. of everything else the ministry needs. She is a total Bible geek. Now, I've had the privilege of seeing her in action, and that is certainly true. And she has an anointing for preaching and teaching the word in a way that makes deep biblical concepts easy to apply. Pastor Dee, as she is affectionately known, has a bachelor's degree in religious studies with an emphasis in prophetic worship. Then in 2013, now y'all be patient with this bio. This is good. In 2013, she earned a master's in theology and received her PhD in theology in May of 2023. Digital Pavement Podcast family, can you just welcome to the podcast Pastor D. Come on, put your hands together wherever you are in virtual land.

all right what's going on pastor d oh my goodness all things good now that i'm here with you

Yes, yes, absolutely. You know, it's been several years since we've had the opportunity just to be together and to have a conversation. And we're certainly going to have a good one on today. But just catch me up just briefly. What's been going on in your world out in Cali? What's going on with the family? Just give us a quick little tidbit on what's happening in your world.

Yeah, you know. It's been good. It has been a challenge. This is the first year, 2025, that we've seen some transition and some changes. But God is so faithful. And it's just amazing how he still uses the house of his glory to reach people. People teach people and I'm excited for the new things he's got for us. I'm going to be moving into online coaching and courses and a whole series of a journey that's going to help people really, I don't know, sort of grow in their soul so that we can actually accomplish God's word.

in this season live out what you promised us oh that's good that's good that's that's awesome yeah that's that's very much needed right and what i think we're going to find is that what's happening in the digital space is always changing it's always morphing it's always becoming and so that coaching and that consulting and that um Just that sort of leadership is going to be needed here in the next few years. So excited to have this conversation with you. And what we're going to talk about today is pioneering a digital church movement. Pastor D, she was... Way ahead, way ahead of so many people that are now catching up to what's happening in the digital space. And so what we like to do in our first segment is we like for those that are guests on the Digital Pavement podcast to share their trailblazer story. This is where we kind of like focus on your start in ministry or as an online pastor or a digital pastor, a content creator. Right. And so as we look at pioneering a digital church movement. We can't fully start that conversation without highlighting where you began. And I think it's important. And I'll say this and then let you let you speak is that for those of us who are in black and brown communities and serve from that context, it's important that we do highlight stories of parishioners that have been moving in the digital space. And maybe those who are engaged in that way are just not familiar with a Pastor D or a Pastor Battle, someone that is in the digital space, not only serving, but serving well. So Say all that to say, why don't you just give us a few moments of your trailblazer story? How did you get started?

Yeah, you know, and you bring up such a good point. I think there's so many of us that are just doing the work. We're, you know, on the front lines, boots on the ground, just doing what we have to do by any means necessary, really. And not trying to fit a mold or reach a quota. And for me, I honestly did start out trying to fit that mold. In 2013, I was a minister on staff with a traditional congregation, a fellowship of about 14 churches internationally. When God said, he did me like Abraham and was like, you're called pastor. I'll tell you when to go. And pretty much just announced to me one day, it's time to tell your bishop. It's time. been called the pastor and he cut me loose he shook my hand and said goodbye and at that season i didn't have a church home i didn't have a license i didn't have a ministry um and in about six months god led me to plant a church and we started out a little pop-up church in the local recreation center at the park you know um And in about a year and a half, we moved into a location where I was subleasing from a Zumba studio. I know. But it's so poignant to the story because we were promised a studio on the weekends. But on the weekends, we had Zumba students coming in looking at us like we were in the wrong place. And the landlord, the guy I was sub-leasing it for, suddenly started tripping to say, who's the lease? Where I had just paid him the rent and every day he was asking me for the rent. My fish and his wife, who had a four-year-old son, found out they were pregnant with triplets.

Oh, my goodness.

I know. I know. And so he asked me to come from Los Angeles to Sacramento, which is about 350 miles difference, to help him pastor his church while he went on sabbatical. And this, of course, is my new and amazing bishop out of Sacramento. And so I did. I packed up my son. We left our husband to maintain our household, and I homeschooled him for six months. I need to find a way to keep in contact with my brand new little congregation that was still trying to grow. I didn't want to cut them loose and God hadn't told me that a year and a half was all. So I started staying in contact with them by email. I was already doing teleconference Bible study. I'd already been doing that. And so in that six months, I just started trying to figure out a way to maintain that congregation once I got back. We no longer had a location to meet. So I got back in March, and I believe it was that April that... So it was Easter Sunday that we held our very first video service. And now it's been nearly 600 online services later. We are still going strong and growing. We thrived through COVID. And the congregation, now they're spoiled. Now that I have a little location, they don't want to come in. They don't want to come in. They're happy. And we've got members from all over California, all the way into Arkansas. And it's just, you know, still just doing the work and serving and teaching, even though the medium happens to be digitally.

Wow. That's an amazing story. It almost sounds like that in God's sovereign plan. He orchestrated the steps in a way that your bishop was expanding his family. And so you were able to and were really moved to help serve and keep that in-person experience going at the church and Sacramento. But then that caused you to think out of the box. on how you were going to still serve your church plan, right? And so that opened up to you different ways of doing it digitally and online. You were already doing teleconference, Bible study. And so, you know, I find that amazing that somehow God just kind of works it out to where He's saying, no, you're actually going to do things differently. And he puts things in place that forces you sometimes to move into that way in that area.

You're absolutely, absolutely right. And I remember just crying out to him, what am I doing? This doesn't make any sense. And he's like, it doesn't make sense. It makes faith. Have faith in me that... What you think is unique or different or even wrong is exactly what I want you to do. And it was a season of stripping off the expectations, stripping off the layers of the mold that everyone said I had to fit into. Organizations that said, you're not a real church. You're not a real pastor. You know, you're an online ministry. All kinds of things that God said, no, no, no. This is what you do. are called to do. And it really also changed the way I was forced to think about things. You know, when they ask, you know, how big is your church? How many members do you have? Even when people talk about digital discipleship, it's not one or the other if you're gonna disciple you're gonna disciple and it really doesn't matter what medium you use if you're with a bullhorn on a street corner if you're you know in a cathedral or you happen to be over the telephone with you know your cousin It's not the digital platform that makes the difference, really. It's what you give to the people, how you teach the people, and how you engage with people over that digital medium.

Wow. That's that's insightful. You know, and I agree wholeheartedly. It's it's not really so much about the how it's the what. Right. What are you doing? Are you giving out of your of yourself to someone else to make them more like Christ, to conform into his image? And that's discipleship in the tea. I love what you said about it doesn't have to make sense. It has to make faith. right right oh that's that's the nugget i'm i'm clocking that as they say now i'm taking that one uh and so no i i love your your trailblazer story and you know you hinted at a few things like hey you know what what people say you're you're not a real pastor you're you know you only have an online group or you know and it doesn't fit the traditional metrics that um church uh historians and those in church planting and all that sort of thing how they look and view this sort of thing but yet god right right still saying no i've i've called you to this i've called you to be out of the box i called you not to fit in traditional norms right and and you know it's interesting to me that people that are doing this you know, they just find their way over here. I don't know what God, it's like you said in that Abraham experience, like, hey, I'm going to call you to leave where you're from and go to a place I'm going to show you.

Exactly.

I don't know what it is, but I'm going, you know, that Abraham didn't fully know, right? But he just went. And I feel that a lot of us that are in the digital space, God has called us to a place that he's going to show us.

Exactly.

And it may look different from year to year, but yet we still trust it. So, OK, let's take a quick pause, a commercial break. All right. And then we're going to be back for more of the Digital Pavement Podcast. Check this out. Hey, what's going on family? Demarcus Battle, host of the Digital Pavement Podcast. And this episode is powered by The Church Digital. The Church Digital resources digital missionaries and pioneers to make disciples in digital spaces. So if you sense a calling in your life for being a missionary in digital spaces, or if you want to take your ministry through the digital age, connect with us at thechurch.digital and join our Discord server or our WhatsApp community. We look forward to connecting with you real soon. So family, if you didn't know, this podcast is a part of the Church Digital Streaming Network. Starting in just a few weeks, you're going to be seeing a number of different shows, different podcasts that are going to be featured. And we're just... Glad that the Lord allowed for us to be a part of that. And TCD as a whole, as an organization is amazing. So if you're interested in connecting with others who are doing digital ministry, they're serving as online pastors, content creators, streamers, VR, video games, all that sort of stuff. Listen, get connected at thechurch.digital. All right. So, Pastor D, we've been having an amazing conversation. We just finished up your Trailblazer story. And now we're going to move into another segment that we call The Blueprint. This is a segment where we unpack strategies. for doing digital ministry well. And so I'd love to hear from you. What are some things that we can take as a blueprint if someone is thinking of starting a digital church, online ministry, maybe they're a content creator, I'm not sure, an influencer, just wanting to share Jesus online, right? Let's just get brass tacks there. What are some things that you think are important from a strategic standpoint?

Absolutely. I think there are Right off the top of my head, I think there's three crucial things that anyone needs in any stage of where they are wanting to do digital ministry. The first thing is mindset. You really have to have a shift in your own mindset. What are you doing for God? What's your calling? What's your message? um you know what are your intentions really establishing what are your goals what what do you think god wants you to do or to teach um how do you show up in that digital ministry the second thing is um you know for a lot of brick and mortar churches They'll start you right off the bat with demographics, right? But the beautiful thing about digital ministry, online church, is that you're more global than you really realize. And you can draw in... a plethora of people from all over the world, different languages, different levels and areas of life. You have that potential. And so instead of necessarily demographics, it's a matter of what platform are you going to be on? Like, Who you're going to reach is dependent upon what platform you're on. If you have a heart for youth, young adults, well, you even have to separate youth from the young adults because if you want to reach youth digitally, don't bother showing up on facebook because that's not where they are you want to go into some of those mediums like roblox um you know those those gaming you know streaming ministries uh if you're gonna reach young adults or you're gonna reach millennials um or if you are going to reach a more you know professional demographic that's going to determine what you might be on and and then that platform is gonna then determine the construct of what your ministry is gonna look like and that's really to me so the second thing meet them where they are the people that you're going to reach meet them where they are and then the third thing is really reach them with the kind of content that they're already you can't change people's mindset. Like if you're going to be, you can't force them into, uh, your own mindset or structure. You've really got to meet them where they are, um, in the way that they're going to receive it. Um, there was, there was for an example, the question about engaging, right? Can you engage with people, um, better digitally or in person and it's two different types of engagement that you can't force a digital community to engage with one another the same way that you would in person yeah yeah you've endorphins from being able to hug somebody in person but digitally you can be more intimate you can be more trusting you can share throughout the week you can do life together and really in the nitty-gritty of it all and so Your content should be reaching those places as well. So hopefully, to me, that's the main foundation. You get that part going and then it's trial and error on the rest.

You know what? That's more than a blueprint. But it's insightful. It's helpful. You know, I heard the first item there. Really, to me, that sounds like seeking God to know who you are. Right. I think that's I think that's OK. What is he called you to write first? Who has he created you to be? And what is he called you to as it pertains to to the digital space? Right. OK. Once you kind of have a grasp on a message, you know, I once heard it said that God. you know, calls a man or a woman, right? And he gives that man a message or that woman a message. And from there, he takes that message and then he has a mandate. Right. And then from a mandate, he could even go grow or she can grow into a movie. Right. And so I think that first understanding what God has called you to and what is the message. Right. What do you want to what do you want to share online? What do you want to share in the digital space? And for me, you know, our vision is revival begins at home. So every time I get on here, I'm speaking to the house. I'm speaking to husbands, fathers, and their kids. Hey, God wants to do something in your family. He wants to do something in your house, right? So that's the distinct message that God has given me in the mandate to speak that to people that are viewing online, right? And so once I have that message, and I'm just taking your blueprint here, right? Once I have that message, then I need to kind of know Where are the people that need that message, right? Are they on Facebook? right okay are they on youtube are they are they on instagram are they in the roblox community are they in the gaming world right and so i think what i hear you saying is get with god so you can learn who you are and what he's called you to what's your message where are those people that he's sending you to right and then once you get to those people listen right don't just force feed them what what you think no he's god is giving you a message but but you have to you have to hear where the people are and what they need so so in your experience did you have did you have to pivot at any point with what you were doing

yeah um there's been basically two pivots um from the beginning when you know in that first i guess it's about a first year or two where i stopped trying to force my understanding of traditional church into this digital construct and let that all go that was the first pivot And then, admittedly, I got into a routine. Okay, this is how the clock works, right? And God warned me in the summer of 2024 that change was coming in 2025. So, literally, that had been my next pivot, where he's just like, you know what? It was... I call it a Burger King moment. Not to plug Burger King, but you remember when they did those commercials, Have It Your Way? Yes.

Yes.

Where God was like, okay, now what do you want? What do you really want to do? And I was given the freedom to say, well, yeah, if I could have it totally my way, this is how I want it to look. And the interesting thing was that was the first year that a summer slump where we noticed members and people not showing up on Sunday mornings. Out of 10 and a half years in digital church, that was the first season that I'd ever experienced that. But it's also that kind of stripping away again so that then I can reshape it into, and so I'm still in that pivot phase pivot season and come January 26th, we're going to shift again. And I really think that the reason why it's been is because of the season and the way the world is right now and the changes that people are going through right now. I'm going to have to change again to meet them where they are and where they're going to end up at the end of their season. pivot and their shift in their transition.

You know, that's that's a mouthful, right? That's deep. The first part of what you were saying is the traditional kind of church idea and structure doesn't it doesn't it doesn't quite fit in the digital ministry space you know like i remember some years ago you know now i i can talk to you plain right we come from black african-american church experience right if you haven't been in that you need to go right first of all you need to visit that and and get get that experience for yourself but as a preacher that is brought up in that sort of uh homiletic and that sort of like exegetical style of preaching that that is very charismatic I was getting behind the camera and I was preaching like that. Right. Right. And I'm like, wait a minute. I even bought me like a little nice little, you know, pool situation and all that. And that can work sometimes. Right. But like what I was what I was finding out is that, OK, I need to pivot. Maybe I need to do more teaching. Right. Packaging it in a way. As a matter of fact, maybe I need to be more conversational. Maybe I need to have more conversations. Right. You know, and so there were some shifts that I needed to take. And, you know, it wasn't that I couldn't do certain things, but it's the packaging. Right. It just works different. I love that you express the idea of pivoting. And, you know, with God, he, you know, my mentor often says, like, you don't force the move. You let it channel like water. So, you know, I think that in the digital space, that is that is even more the case because things are always changing. right and so trying to just remain stuck in one particular way of doing things especially if you've had a little bit of success in that particular area you know it can be a little nerve-wracking to have to pivot or shift but that's the way the digital space is if you think about technology you buy a cell phone it's old in two months right it changes rather frequently and so we have to be uh uh agile uh in the digital space so okay that's segment two teachable yes yes absolutely and so yeah that's that's the blueprint that's our segment two we got one more commercial break we're gonna air that now and then we'll be right back with you check this out Hey, what's going on family? Dr. Demarcus Battle, co-founder of Bible with the Battles. And this episode of the Digital Pavement Podcast is sponsored by Bible with the Battles. Listen, Bible with the Battles is an online preaching and teaching ministry whose mission is to help you to hear the word, believe the word, and apply the word of God to your life. And our vision is simple yet profound. Revival begins at home. That's your physical house and all the inhabitants, husbands, wives, mothers, fathers, children, brothers, sisters, the whole family. And it is your spiritual house. Revival begins there. And so we just want to share with you that Bible with the Battles is here for the sole reason to help you go to the next level in your faith. Visit our website at biblewiththebattles.com or follow us on all of our social media platforms under the handle Bible With The Battles. I'll leave you again with our vision, which is simple yet profound. Revival begins now. That's right. Revival begins at home. And so if you're not connected with me and my wife, Renika, please go to BibleWithTheBattles.com. Learn about our ministry. We would love for you to connect with us on all of our social media platforms. The handle being BibleWithTheBattles. All right. So before we do our last segment, I want to do something a little fun real quick. A couple of rapid fire questions for you. And so I'm just going to ask these. These are either or sort of questions. Most of them. About four or five. It's not going to be too difficult. All right. So first question for you. Cell phone. Are you an Apple user or an Android user?

Android. Android. Android.

Oh, Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy. Oh, the green dot. The green dot. Oh, my goodness. All right. Okay. Praise God. All right. Favorite social media platform?

Instagram.

Instagram. Okay. All right. Am I following you on Instagram?

You know what? I think it's embarrassing to say. I think we just followed each other this week.

Oh, Lord have mercy. Listen, shame on us. Shame. Okay. Well, we're following now. Okay.

We're connected now.

Good. All right. And maybe this is not, you know, your cup of tea, but Netflix or Hulu?

Netflix, Netflix.

Netflix, okay. I love K-dramas.

I was just going to say, can I confess? I am addicted to K-dramas.

Come on. Come on, Pastor D. Listen. You're my long lost relative. Yes. After this. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Um, what, what are you, um, worshiping to what what's on your playlist right now?

Um, this is going to sound weird, but I discovered on YouTube that r&b psalms and proverbs okay two hours of them singing songs and songs and proverbs in this old school r&b style

Okay. We talking 90s R&B style?

80s and 90s R&B style. It's wild, but I'm like, this is feeding my soul here.

Okay. I'm going to have to check that out. I'm going to have to check that out. Okay. And then last, here's the last question for you. Your favorite Bible translation. Okay. Old school King James. You can't go wrong with the King's English. Yeah.

I'm a little bit of a KJV snob. I'm sorry.

Okay. Are you a Strong's Concordance person? You got your Strong's right with you?

Yes. I'm surprised it's not in arms.

i hear that i hear that okay so that was just our quick rapid fire we're gonna try to insert that in the podcast whenever we can just to have a little fun so all right our last segment of today is uh the pavement ahead and This is our time to kind of have an outlook of digital ministry. Let's just say like over the next five, 10 years. And so just, you know, in your experience and what God has been speaking to you about and how you've been navigating through this arena thus far, you know, what do you see on the horizon in regards to digital ministry? Yeah.

I see a couple of things, but they are both connected to the same one thing. And I think that one thing that we're going to see is more interaction. Not necessarily what we've typically known of as engagement, but more interactivity. sort of on the one to five year scale. I see that more hands-on. what i spoke before about the the next shift um we've been moving from equipping this year to moving into more of the doing come into sessions um to learn and we learn how to apply it it's like a fueling station right we're going to come in we go out and do it. And so I think we're going to see more and more believers connected digitally that are doing the work of ministry, like Ephesians says. That's the next phase and it's going to really be fueled through this digital movement. It's sad to say, but I just feel in my spirit like that brick and mortar four walls is confining their idea of ministry to those four walls. And that digitally automatically are coming together. out of that mindset. And we're going to have an easier transition to doing everyday work. Like you said, in the family, with extended family members, at our kids' schools, on the soccer fields, like everyday supernatural ministry. And I think that interactivity then on the long run is gonna move in through the digital space with in VR, virtual reality more so, but it's gonna be more interactive and more interactively biblical. Meaning like, Right now you can go to VR church and you can wander through environments that are set up and you can sit in that environment and have a sermon. Or you can game with your favorite gamers and kind of get some scripture and some Bible teaching along the way. Think that creators are going to find a way to truly embed biblical experiences into those VR spaces that are going to be transformative. Because your brain doesn't know the difference between VR and VR. And real reality. And so I think we're going to see some extraordinary changes in people's lives through those VR communities. So we'll see if I'm speaking prophetically or hopefully.

A bit of both. A bit of both. You know, for those who've never gotten into a VR space, I would recommend doing so, especially if you are in ministry. Right. You need to see. What's happening? You know, I and maybe I was a little little righteous anger, but I went on live a couple about a month ago and had a bit of a rant. And I was just saying, like, how is it that. We have churches, and this is not a physical church diss, but it's just a reality. How is it that we have physical churches that have youth at their churches, but they don't even know anything about VR, anything about Roblox, anything about Twitch? right anything about you know uh tick tock like you know like totally oblivious to any of these mediums right these platforms they kind of don't want to know they don't want to know and it you know i i have a son you know and he's huge into into roblox anime That's huge in the anime. And I'm like, where is the the Christian comic book artist? You know, the next one might be in your youth ministry. Right. Like and so I went off. I went off, Pastor D. And, you know, I just think that we have to get out of our way. Staying stuck in the traditional, you know, yes, you're always going to have mother so-and-so and sister so-and-so and brother so-and-so that are going to be there at noon prayer. That's not going away, right? But we have to understand where the people are and everybody has a cell phone, right? So that is critical that we, especially within the black and brown church communities, right? That we should, let's be on the cutting edge on this, right? And that's why I'm doing this podcast to expose- The stories of those of us who are serving in this way, but then to also expose it to those who aren't. Another thing that you said that I think is key and we'll maybe wrap up on this. You mentioned. people coming together and i'm kind of paraphrasing in the way i think i heard it coming together and around really like interests um you know that could be cooking that could be the soccer moms that could be where we do life And infiltrating those spaces with the kingdom of God and allowing for that connection to go from not only being in those spaces, but rallying around digital.

that's yeah so that's did i hear you correct you heard not only did you hear me correct but apparently you were eavesdropping on what god told me years ago the word infiltrate that's what he kept beating at me infiltrate infiltrate infiltrate all areas of society right now We just permeate the world with the truth of God in every aspect of life.

Yeah, yeah. And digital just makes it that much easier, right? Because now you have a tool that can be a connector, right? Yeah. You rally around the interest and you use the digital as the tool for that communication, for that gathering, for that discipleship, right? And you do life. You do life. Digitally. Right. You do it. There's an in-person element, but it becomes we're doing life digitally. Like, you know, how much do you text your significant? Right. You know, you're texting, you know, a large portion of our connection is digital.

It's the truth. It is the absolute truth. It's so true. Yeah.

Yeah. So listen, me, you and I, we could be chatting this up. Listen, we already look, the TCD streaming network going to be like, hold on, sir. You, you said you had a 30 minute show. No, y'all gonna get this content. Y'all gonna get this. No, but I just want to say.

I think Jeff will give us an extension.

I think he will. Yes, yes. So listen, thank you so much for being a guest on this podcast. It was an absolute blast to have you. How can people connect with you?

Yes, of course, on social media, Instagram and Facebook and YouTube at H-O-H-G Church. And of course, the church website is thehouseofhisglory.com. I would love to meet anyone who connects through this podcast. It would be great.

Amen. Amen. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe you have some amazing resources that might even be available. Where can they get, you have books, where can they get stuff from you?

That's right. Check out the new website. It is brand new as of a couple of months ago. It's totalsoulsuccess.com. And I am uploading new resources all the time based upon 3 John 1 and 2 that we can prosper and be in health even as our souls prosper. Yeah.

Amen. Amen. Well, listen, Pastor D, you are a pioneer in this movement. You were doing this well before so many others, and we are standing on your shoulders today. continuing to move this thing forward. And so God bless you, bless your family. And we thank everybody for joining us. This has been the Digital Pavement Podcast. I am your host, Demarcus Battle. And listen, make sure that you tune in on our next episode. God bless you. And we will see you real soon.

Thank you for joining us today. You've just experienced another episode of the digital pavement podcast. We are your source for the powerful stories of black and Brown leaders at the intersection of faith and technology. This podcast is where digital ministry and the urban church collide. If this episode inspired you, please subscribe and share it with a fellow leader in your faith community.